I am looking for information as to this saws manufacture. I have not seen this medallion before or in recent research. Any help would be appreciated and would be a calm to my Quest. Jeff Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hi Jeff, For a start let me say that an envy icon is sorely needed for this one. The medallion is wonderful,and the saw itself is not far behind. It is not in BSSM. According to BSSM, John and Henry Sorby (the I is an archaic substitute for a "J") took over the firm from the founder John Sorby in 1829, after his death. John and Henry were the sons of John. In 1844 the firm was amalgamated with Lockwood Brothers who kept the name and the mark going for an indeterminate period. The saw is unlikely therefore to be before 1829. And there the facts end and my WAG begins as this saw is an enigma to me. This saw is likely to be either a good quality early saw or a lesser quality later saw (last quarter of the 19th century??). I cannot really tell which, but from the name only on the back (no place of manufacture or cast steel) I would guess at it being from the earlier end of the above timeline. However 1829 is a little late to have the name only on it according to BSSM (p73), but I wouldn't worry too much about that. The saw just looks to me to be early, especially with that medallion as I cannot see it being put on a lesser quality saw, but the normal caveat applies that I have so often been wrong. The medallion must be the key to dating it and so we want someone who has a reference to it. Fred Fred
Thanks for your reply, Fred. The medallion drew me to this saw as it depicts a great level of pride in its design. Looking at the spine there is a small crescent about one inch long with only I &H Sorby and no other fanfare as in describing type of steel or images, fairly bland in comparison to the medallion. I have read of the original company and its sale and name rights being transferred to Lockwood and thats about where it ends so far. One reply elsewhere mentioned that the casting image on the medallion could depict the Golden Fleece of mythology. I Know that I&HS used a hanging sheep image and were known for their quality sheep shears. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm with Fred on this one, the envy quotient is through the roof! Just beautiful lines and condition. Kenneth Roberts postulated a family tree of the Sorby/Marples lineage, I'm not 100% sure I agree completely, since I suspect Isaac Sorby didn't exist. But the acquisition by John Sorby and son in 1849 of the I&H Sorby brand is probably correct. Which probably dates your saw to the 1840's Give or take. I'd be interested if Simon can clarify any further information on Isaac Sorby?
Here is the most current history outline on Sorbys and their relations: http://contrib2.wkfinetools.com/TweedaleG/SorbyFamily/SorbyFamily-01.asp. It includes a history of I & H Sorby and wells as I. Sorby trade mark.
Thanks Wiktor & Fred for the feedback. Still an inigma to me as the medallion has not shown up in any fashion, only time will tell.! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This is indeed a very fine (and new to me) medallion. I would not be surprised to learn (but I don't know how I could) that it was made in the USA for a US export model of a Sorby saw – there are other examples of this style of medallion design – large raised letters and an image not seen on any English examples. Is there any research on brass founders in New York in the 1840-1860 period? For many years Sheffield makers went to considerable lengths to make saws for the US market that were often very different to their local output, eg putting in multiple medallion screws, and having differently worded etched marks. I've sometimes wondered if their imported saws were "finished off" States-side. And thanks to Wiktor for pointing us to Geoff Tweedale's usual definitive history: he is not quite as firm as BSSM (italicised entry under I Sorby p536, and at foot of same page). I think Ken Roberts' family tree is now superseded and should not be referred to, although its diagrammatic form is useful (KR was the source of "Isaac" Sorby: I suspect that after a long day in the records – it's singularly exhausting work – he misread a note he'd made in those pre-computer days and thought he'd seen the name somewhere) .
Thanks for your input on this Simon. You have turned another rock for me to peer under. https://americanbell.org/aba-forum/topic/brasss-bronze-foundries-in-u-s-a/ Also I have seen other raised type strikes as in opposition to the more plentiful recessed strikes as in these, could the maker of these be from the same foundry.? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
On another note I find medallions after the Lockwood purchase to be ,,; I dot H dot Sorby. and I &H Sorby before. Jeff Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk