Kenyon & Sykes 18inch backsaw

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by mattsworld, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

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    Greetings

    Its been a while since I posted, so I thought I'd share with you guys a most exciting find. I scored this 18 inch Kenyon & Sykes beauty at an auction last year. I finally got around to cleaning it up and took some pics for my website. I thought I'd share.

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    I've never seen or heard of a backsaw from Kenyon and Sykes....I'm lucky enough to have a 26 inch handsaw from them and the stamp is identical.

    Anyone seen another one?
     
  2. Kalon

    Kalon New Member

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    Matt.Can't say I have but truely appreciate your saw.I'm interested how it feels in your hand and what kind of weight it holds....


    Mac....
     
  3. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

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    Hi Mac

    Its heavy! Its obviously too old to use (and too important!) but I gather from holding it that the weight and balance of the saw would require the user to simply put it to wood and push.
     
  4. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

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    Kenyon&Sykes

    That's a real beauty, Matt! Congratulations, and thanks for letting us see it in detail.
    I have a K&S backsaw (pics attached if I can hack it) which I think is probably later than yours (?c1820), although accurate dating of open handled dovetail saws is a mug's game.
    What I also have and which is equally interesting to compare is a big very heavy (snap!) 20inch backsaw marked Kenyon & Co (only); I've tentatively dated that at c1760, although it could be a bit later. The close similarity of the handle pattern (not a commonly found one) makes me wonder if in fact Kenyon and Sykes were working closely together before the official date of their partnership start (1809); Sykes had his own separately listed business from 1786, with the address "Isle", which was also used by Kenyons around that time.
    Captions: the first two are the c1820 backsaw, the third the Kenyon of c1760.
     

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  5. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    Kenyon&Sykes

    Hey Matt
    Nice saw and in such good original condition. Here is another "hen's tooth" I found this year. This is a 14" steel back with a similar shape to yours but not quite as big or as hefty. This is the way it arrived so I assume has been cleaned somepoint in its history. I am curious to know if yours has the striations across the steel back since I have seen this a few times? It is hard to see in the pics. I also see that the stamp is again very close to the edge as Simon has noted in early saws.
    Keep them coming.
    Joe S.
     

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  6. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    Congratulations Matt on a great find!, pictures of no less than three Kenyon & Sykes backsaws in as many days. Seriously envious.. :)

    I wonder why the stamp was so close to the edge?

    One, I could understand as just being a mis-struck mark, but it seems as if they are all struck right on the edge?

    Something to do with their manufacturing processes perhaps.

    Regards
    Ray
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  7. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

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    Thanks guys...it was very exciting to find it. I found the saw in a lot at my favorite local tool auction. It was in an old, abused pattern makers tool chest that had been packed with lots of old saws. Clearly not original to the chest...it was a real grab bag covering 150 years of manufacture.

    Anyway, I didn't win the lot, BUT since all I wanted was the Kenyon, I went right up to the dealer who won it and made him an offer for the saw. He accepted. Patrick Leach was standing next to me at the time and curiously asked, "Hey Matt......what'd you get?" I showed him the saw and pointed out the mark. He smiled and replied, "Nice!" No one else had even noticed the saw in the lot.....I should have been wearing a mask!! ;)

    Anyway, enough bragging...

    Simon: Thanks for sharing the DT saw....I was anxiously awaiting your input. Have you even seen or heard of another K&S this big? I think the tote is simply stunning. I'd love to see more pics of your 20inch Kenyon.

    Joe: Thanks for sharing....I love the tote on yours too. The similarities are over whelming. I haven't noticed any striations on the back...I'll have to take a closer look. Marks from the press break I'm guessing?

    Ray: Excellent point. I had just assumed it was an error. Odd to think it could have been just the way they were stamped. Simon?

    I'll have to post some pics of other Kenyon's I've found over the last year....:)
     
  8. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

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    Kenyon & Sykes

    It's a tribute to this site that we get to see so many stunning saws from so many places so quickly - thanks, Ray!

    I've discussed with Ken Hawley, who is especially interested in how tools were made, why the early marks on backsaws were so often so low down (not invariably - see my posting on the Squire/Peters saw earlier today [Hang on! It's disappeared - maybe it's time I went to bed].
    We've concluded that it was probably an aid to getting the back to grip the blade, and that as manufacturing got more skilled it became less necessary and the more legible position was adopted.

    Matt - here's a couple of views of the big Kenyon tenon [18th century useage] saw - it's really heavy.
     

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  9. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

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    Thanks Simon :) Very cool.

    And I couldn't agree more about the site...its truly a saw lover's paradise!

    Joe: I looked at the back closely last night...I could not discern any striations or marks like yours.