W kaye & son nottingham backsaw Hello, I have a brass backed Tenon Saw that is stamped W HAYE (could be KAYE) & SON NOTTINGHAM. Having searched the Nottingham trade directories I have found a listing in the Wright directory of 1910 for W Kaye & son listed as ironmongers, joiners tool dealers and makers trading from 29 Holland Street off Goose Gate Nottingham. No other marks or any indications are on the saw to indicate this saw was supplied by another maker and W Kaye & son applied there own stamp to the saw. Is it possible this saw could have been made in Nottingham? the saw is in excellent condition and i am sure that any etchings would have still been visible, but there are none. At sometime there has been an image of some description on one side of the handle but this is very indistinct making it impossible to read. Can any one help to identify the maker, should it not be W Kaye & son.[/IMG]
I suspect that this item is really one for Simon as he has probably researched it properly. I have done a quick trawl through the on-line historical directories and although (surprisingly) I could not bring up the 1910 one, I could bring up Wrights of 1913/14 and 1915/16. The listings are almost identical in that they have the firm of William Kaye and Son ( as you say) listed for joiner's tool makers and ironmongers. They also have them listed as cutlers and grinders (P464 1913/14) and, perhaps more interestingly, saw makers and repairers.(P 525). So it is really anyones guess. Were they merely iromongers who wanted to "up" their image by advertising as sawmakers and cutlers, or did they really do all these things? Even if they did have their saws made for them, it is possible/probable that they stamped their own name on the back without any reference to the real maker. This I believe was common practice. So, unless someone really knows, we are back to Kiwi's WAGs. Fred One snippet which may be of no interest at all, in the 1915/16 directory there is an Albert Edward Kaye (William Kaye and Son) listed with what I assume is a home address of Belmont, Florence Road. This may well be the "Son".
Once again thanks Fred, I did see the entry in the directory for cutler and grinder but I missed the entry for saw maker and repairer. After enlargement in my Photo programme I can confirm that the stamp is definitely that of W. Kaye & son. What I do find interesting is, I have lived in Nottingham all my life and walked up and down Goose Gate many times but I have never seen anything that would indicate this company existed on Goose Gate a 100 years ago. Kellys directory for 1904 has an entry on page 384 W.Kaye & Son (Alfred) ironmongers, saw repairers, & tool dealers, 29 Goose gate: h. Lowdham. Also listed in the same directory page 617; Kaye Ls. 31 Goose Gate. On page 648 W.Kaye & son Cutlers & grinders, on page 701 they are listed as Ironmongers and again they are listed as Saw Makers. Also 4 other saw makers are listed in Nottingham those are E. Hopkin, Henry Polak & son, Charles Pool and finally Henry Ward & son. These names on saws I have never seen but one Name does seem familiar and that is Charles pool. Some years ago a high quality tool shop did exist in Nottingham called Pools Tools from whom i bought several tools, maybe a family link with Charles Pool? Your assumption Fred that Albert Edward Kaye may be the son could be correct but the entry in Kelly on page 384 puts the son's name as Alfred in brackets. Could these be one of the same person? Alfred may be a corruption of the name Albert? Interesting discussion though; has any one ever come across saws from these other listed makers?
W Kaye Nottingham Funnily enough another one of these has appeared for sale - in the US - on the Old Tools List. Seems they are breeding! Not quite the same.
W Kaye backsaw From a mixture of ignorance and arrogance I have assumed that all the Nottingham names who had themselves listed as saw makers were dealers, saw doctors, repairers etc - it's an unknown question how far these firms could go in "making" a saw. Sheffield saw makers' catalogues in at least the 1920s listed all the parts anyone would need to make a saw, so if a guy bought them, had etching transfers or a mark punch for saw backs made with his name (like W Kaye) - was he a saw maker, or a "saw maker"? Answers and thoughts would be much appreciated! And even if he didn't buy all the parts, anyone could buy sheet steel, and get it pared and toothed - it's getting the specialised stuff like grinding, smithing, tensioning etc done that is the more difficult part, but saw doctors and repairers could well have been trained in at least some of these things. The most difficult of all would be hardening and tempering the steel, so I imagine that nearly every maker, or "maker", would have got his steel at the stage past that. As for Kaye, there were quite a lot them about - Leicester, Nottingham, Hull, Middlesbrough (from memory). The Hull people were real saw makers, I think - possibly the only ones who were - and a catalogue of theirs of the 1930s (maybe later) states they had three partners who were Sheffield trained saw makers. Ken Hawley acquired some of their equipment when they closed down c1975. They were pretty productive, as their saws are quite commonly sold at auction. And like Rilanda, I remember "Pools for Tools" from the 1950s, when I went to school in Nottingham - a mouth-watering shop even for a teenager with no spare pocket money.
W. Kaye Backsaw You can read a history of the Kaye business at the following website. You can also download a PDF of one of their tool catalogues. Rilanda's saw is on page 44. http://tskayeandsons.weebly.com/index.html